本文為 7 月 12 日採訪速記稿，經過少量編輯和 GPT 處理，可能存在較多的錯誤。
2014年你加入 OK，2017年創立幣安，10年過去了，有什麼感慨？
何一：我印象最深刻的可能就是我剛剛入行，因為13年比特幣價格漲，然後漲到1000美金以上，那個時候就覺得說好刺激，然後也是第一次讓我對自己的人生有了反思，就是說我一直說我為什麼會加入這個行業，放棄當時比如說在旅遊衛視這樣的工作機會，還是因為我覺得第一次有一個東西讓我對自己的人生有了一個新的思考，就是錢是什麼？因為從小我們的父母都會告訴我們錢很重要，我覺得說13年比特幣價格漲到1000美金以上，當時給我一個很大的刺激，錢到底是什麼？你以前認為是錢的那個東西，可能它不是錢的本身，所以這件事是直接讓我選擇進入幣圈。
加入了幣圈以後，最刺激的可能就是我剛正式官宣入職，然後門頭溝就倒閉了，然後我當時會感覺說滅頂之災。今天幣圈有些大跌，和14年的歷史相比真的不算什麼，有一天比特幣應該是跌到了差不多100美金以下。就是瞬間你就坐在螢幕面前看著那個嘩啦往下跌，那時候流動性沒有那麼強，賣的時候所有人都在賣，你真的就是看見價格一節一節往下掉。
14年那個時候還是時無英雄，使豎子成名，因為我經常在內部開會就笑我們說我們招聘應該就是更多樣化，因為我說如果是今天這邊面試，以我的背景，以我的履歷我是拿不到Offer 的，所以我覺得10年後，我覺得如果是同樣的背景的一個人來畢業面試，他絕對拿不到Offer，因為我們會說你的英文好不好，你有什麼成就對吧？就是說他會非常專業化。你會覺得說10年前真的別人看見我們一幫搞傳銷的，10年後來覺得這個行業還是不管從人才，從可能性，還是一個正向刺激和循環。
14 年那個時候業界最有名的人是誰？我記憶中是烤貓和長鏜。那時候都是山寨幣，真的除了比特幣之外都是山寨幣，所以大家都是原教旨主義。比較明顯的是17年就有一個很大的變化，以太坊本身的出現還是讓一些理念就是過去空口討論的這種金融化這件事情，泛金融化這件事情或者微縮金融這件事情出現了。 17年的這種真正大家會覺得說這裡有機會可以創業，就會誕生這樣的公司。
我覺得現在這個所謂的牛市並不是創新驅動的，它也並不是說這個行業有巨大的變化驅動的，它其實就是 ETF 這種獨立事件驅動的。所以我覺得你把整個幣圈歷史或說每個階段有什麼真正的創新留下來，對這個行業有正面影響去做一個總結的話，我覺得還是有蠻多收穫的，個人至少會覺得說最終還是創新在驅動這個產業往前走。
幣安投資的最重要的標準有哪些？你個人對哪個賽道有興趣
何一：我可以大概把投資理解跟大家對齊一下，我認為說確實相對來講亞洲的這些項目方，我覺得相對還是會吃虧一點，因為畢竟北美還是有一些比較比較典型的創投，像a16z 的這些本身就非常專注於在區塊鏈產業做大投入的公司還是比較多。
但確實在亞洲的投資者和公司，其實它會存在一個巨大的尷尬，可能本身亞洲的這些基金可能也不是那麼想投亞洲的公司，這個有點自己看不起自己，我覺得還是很難。
我們的投資你可以理解為我們是希望撒胡椒面，你最終可以理解為這個行業最後能夠走多遠，其實就是還是創新驅動的，跨越鴻溝最終還是要有真正的創新驅動，區塊鏈科技能夠大眾化，能夠被更多的普通人用起來，最終誰成功不知道，但盡可能的扶持更多的人，我們投過的項目說實話可能超過2000個，沒有2000個，1000個肯定是有的，但是大部分專案其實說實話我也沒聊過，我也沒有沒有跟他們交流過，但我覺得基本上投資看幾個框架性的東西：
第一個是我覺得創始人本身他是不是有一個長期主義，對這個行業你信不信對吧？你會發現說最後如果說他對這個行業幹一把就跑，別墅靠海梭一把，他跟這個賭徒其實是沒有差異，這種其實他就算成功，他最後也是賣幣就跑了，所以我覺得是說還是要長期主義，對產業還是要有信心。
The second thing I think is very important is his skills. What have you done, right? Does each person’s capability model, including your team’s model, complement each other? The third thing I think is actually its thinking structure. You can understand it as whether it is a state that can continue to iterate. You will find that in fact, many people are very able to toss in the end. Even if their starting point is a little lower, they can keep iterating. In fact, you probably have a judgment during the conversation with them. I think if the basics are passable and the fundamentals are okay, we are still willing to invest some money to cultivate them. We cannot pursue the so-called 100% success rate, because the essence of this thing does not exist. Look at the traditional For a VC, 9 out of 10 projects he may have invested in have died, and it is very common for only 1 to be successful. So I don’t think I should invest in this matter. I still hope that more innovators can come out in this industry. I can continue to build confidence for everyone in the long night, whether it is the long night of everyone's current mood, or the long night before this technology has made a very big leap, but in the end if you do not support others, you will eventually I am just a lone traveler. If I am the only one on this road, I don’t think this can become an industry, right?
I don’t evaluate projects very much, but I personally think that the next thing that may have a huge impact on human society is AI. I still spend a lot of time studying this matter, but I don’t necessarily say that we have invested in anything. Yes, but I think you need to know the direction of the tide.
Is there a rat position on Binance? What are the standards for currency listing? He Yi: When we often discuss Rat Cang, everyone knows that if certain tokens are widely publicized and will be listed on a certain exchange, then this project will not be listed on Binance. However, from last year to this year, there were not many high-quality and popular projects on the market, which made the work of our currency listing team awkward. We have not yet contacted some project parties, but rumors of currency listing have spread, and some people will even use such rumors to exert pressure. If the project side does not accept their conditions, they will spread rumors about the coin listing. If we don't choose this project, we are sometimes accused of being a rat warehouse.
We have strict standards and processes before listing. We will screen projects and conduct internal audits in each cycle. If someone strongly opposes a project, it won't pass muster. We try to minimize the time difference between the decision to list the currency and the final launch to eliminate rumors of rat warehouses. The decision to list the currency is not made by one person, but through a multi-level evaluation process to ensure the technical foundation, market potential and investment endorsement of the project. Binance’s currency listing standards mainly include the following points: Technical and market foundation: whether the project has a solid technical foundation and market potential. Popularity and attention: The popularity of the project in the market and user attention. Investment endorsement: Whether the project is supported by reliable investment institutions to ensure that it will not run away easily. Project life cycle: Whether the project life cycle is long enough and whether it has the potential for sustainable development. We will put all projects that meet these criteria into a large pool for observation and evaluation.
One of the main challenges we face is users’ psychological expectations. Many users in the currency circle expect returns of hundreds or thousands of times, while traditional investors are already very satisfied with annual returns of 20%-30%. As competition intensifies, opportunities for high returns will become increasingly rare. We need users to understand the development and changes of the industry and adjust their expectations.
In terms of currency selection, if the project has VC investment, users will think that the VC is cutting leeks; if the project is weak, users will think that Binance has listed a junk project. Therefore, no matter which project you take on, there will always be dissatisfied users. We hope to provide projects that are in demand, popular and relatively reliable in the market, but this does not mean that all projects will rise. We also hope that users can understand market fluctuations and cycles. As competition in the industry intensifies, there are fewer and fewer opportunities for returns of hundreds and thousands of times with high information gaps. The entire industry, whether it is the primary market or the secondary market, is becoming more and more competitive. We hope users can understand that in such an environment, it is not easy to find projects that can bring high returns in the long term. Ultimately, we need users to understand and accept reality and adjust expectations to better profit from this rapidly evolving industry.
Question about the number of coins listed on Binance: When Binance lists coins very quickly, is this a fact or an opinion? In fact, we can speak with statistics. From last year to this year, Binance only launched more than thirty currencies. For exchanges with greater market share growth, the number of listed currencies starts at more than 100. If Binance should list fewer coins, or even only keep Bitcoin, whether this view is reasonable is worth exploring.
If you think that more than 30 coins are listed on Binance, how do you explain the hundreds of other coins listed on Binance? In fact, this is a matter of opinion and fact, which requires objective data and analysis to prove.
The second part involves stakeholder and regulatory issues. Is this true when most of the coins we list have a stake in Binance? In fact, Binance has very limited investments in most coins, with some holdings as low as 0.1%. Other trading platforms may be more involved in interest-related projects. Therefore, it is believed that Binance has interests related to the listed currencies and requires effective argumentation.
Everyone hopes that all coins on Binance will rise, but this is unrealistic. There is no guarantee that any investment market will only rise but not fall. The fundamental function of Binance is to provide popular and popular projects on the market, but it also hopes to screen out those projects that are at risk of running away and screen out projects with potential.
Binance’s future business focus and direction?
He Yi: The essence of crossing the chasm is to better apply technology to current industries. We are investing more in more companies, hoping that more innovation will emerge in the industry. For Binance, we are a platform that allows more users to enter the industry. For example, we added new businesses last year, such as Plaza. The function of the square is to allow users who are not very interested in the currency circle to come in and take a look at it at any time, and gradually understand the currency circle and its investment.
Another aspect is that we have tried the stablecoin business, but ultimately failed due to regulatory costs and threshold issues. In addition, since last year, everyone has paid more attention to the Web3 wallet. Friendly merchants perform well in external storage wallets, but everyone has different understandings of Web3 wallets. Many peers regard it as an alternative plan (Plan B) for exchanges. When exchange business is affected by regulation, they can continue to trade through wallets without the need for KYC and anti-money laundering. However, we believe that Web3 wallet Plan B still cannot avoid supervision. Therefore, we hope to use Web3 wallet as a long-tail business to cover on-chain services that existing exchange users cannot involve, such as staking and on-chain transactions.
Although we are currently not doing a good job in Web3 wallet products, we still want to improve the user experience, especially Web3 wallets with KYC requirements. The future focus and direction is still to solve compliance issues on a global scale. As the industry develops and the global focus on the crypto industry increases, Binance must assume compliance responsibilities, including issues such as regulatory communication, trust building, and anti-money laundering among various countries.
I think if the industry can establish an effective reconciliation channel with the government, it will be possible to become part of the Internet. But if it goes against the government, it may become a darknet. Therefore, we hope to become an Internet industry that serves more people. There is no truly huge innovation happening in the current bull market. For example, in the last cycle everyone discussed that Ethereum was too expensive and could not support large-scale applications. But now, whether it is speed or cost, these are no longer bottlenecks. The real problem is that there are not enough effective assets.
What difficulties/desperate situations has Binance been in? How to get out? What crises will arise in the future? He Yi: Binance does not disclose the market capitalization, which may be confusing, but we do have over 200 million registered users, although not as many active users. Regarding the market value of BNB, I think it is a relative value. I don’t pay much attention to the market value myself, mainly because of its cyclical fluctuations. Ups and downs occur naturally. As long as you do things well, the results will be good. I have always believed that as long as we manage the present moment every day, we can achieve good results.
From the first day of Binance’s launch, there have been infinite crises and dilemmas at every step. For example, BNB once fell 50% on the first day of listing, which may be the biggest dilemma for CZ. We have also faced situations where Amazon Cloud was down and infrastructure and domain names were cancelled. Therefore, our philosophy is to solve problems when we encounter them and manage every day well. If you insist on doing the right things, you will naturally get positive rewards.
Since childhood, we have had a concept called "if you are poor, you can benefit yourself, and if you are prosperous, you can help the world". But I think there is a flaw in this logic: when is success? My understanding is that as long as what you do is positive for the world, can reduce costs, improve efficiency, and help users have a better experience, you are changing the world. It doesn’t have to be like Elon Musk launching a rocket, and it doesn’t have to be like Tesla. But if what you do has a positive impact on the world, the company will naturally become bigger and stronger.
In the process of development, you will naturally encounter different challenges, such as regulatory pressure or talent development challenges. The company is developing rapidly, but its talent training system may not be perfect. These are problems that need to be solved naturally. I have always maintained a positive attitude and did not feel that I was at the end of my rope when faced with difficulties. Life is a wilderness, just take every step carefully.
I used to run 1500 meters in middle-distance running when I was in school. Every moment in life is a challenge, but as long as you push yourself a little more, you will find that you are constantly growing.
He Yi: I think I am a person with a very sense of crisis. Looking at the entire industry, the biggest crisis is of course the regulatory crisis, and this is not just for Binance. Although we have just passed a hurdle on this front, regulation will always be an important challenge. The second crisis is industry competition and innovation crisis. At this stage, the competition between exchanges is parallel. The core skills of each exchange are not very different. We are also constantly learning from others and making continuous improvements. The bigger crisis actually comes from unknown uncertainty and innovation. So we encourage continuous trying of new things both from an investment perspective and from an internal employee perspective. If any colleagues want to start innovative business or have entrepreneurial ideas, we are very supportive.
In essence, all threats do not come purely from known competitors, but from environmental uncertainty and new innovations. If new innovations appear and you are unaware of them, that is the biggest crisis. It's like the mobile phone giants didn't realize what the emergence of smartphone screens meant to them.
The entire industry has developed to this day, and it is difficult to exist as a niche startup company like in the past. Effective communication with regulators and policymakers now needs to be established. What I personally spend more time focusing on is how to transform a startup company supported by the founder's charisma and ability into an evergreen company. This requires improvement of organizational capabilities. If the organizational ability is strong enough, good seed players can be continuously cultivated.
What do you think of MEME?
He Yi: When half of the top ten coins by trading volume are MEME, what will happen if we don’t list these coins? Users and transaction volume will flow to other platforms. So many times we have no choice. Other trading platforms will also list these currencies, and there are even third parties to choose from. This is not to say that the entire industry is working for Binance, but we must make a compromise to maximize our value and fundamentals as much as possible.
This phenomenon is not unique in different market cycles. In 2014, everyone thought that except for Bitcoin, everything else was garbage. In 2017, everyone also felt that all the hype in the market were junk projects, and people had a strong speculative mentality. This kind of emotional fluctuations will appear in every cycle, just because the market size has expanded a lot this time, many new players have entered, and the emotional expression is more direct and reflected on the Internet.
In the past, the industry was dominated by a few experts who had many years of experience in technology. They gained influence in the market and everyone followed them to invest. If they make a profit, people will trust their technology more. This round, with the emergence of some user-end products, people began to follow a new wave of influential figures to speculate, and market sentiment was still very volatile.
Whether it is the traditional financial market or the current market, it is indeed very affected by emotions. But this does not negate the significance of seriously building products and building business models. The craze and emotional fluctuations in each market will have an impact on the mentality of users, investors and entrepreneurs.
I often emphasize the "unity of knowledge and action" with my team members. This is not because my name is He Yi, but because I have a deep understanding of this. Stick to whatever you believe in. Only by insisting repeatedly will the results appear. Just like we have known since childhood that our academic performance will not be bad. If we want to lose weight and have a good body, we must keep our mouth shut and move forward. But in practice, it is difficult to do it because there are many temptations from the outside world.
The same is true for the entrepreneurship and investment market. When you persist in your ideals and innovations, others may laugh at you. But if you look back, when Binance launched BNB in 2017, a lot of people were laughing at us. At that time, some people said that the trading platform was not worthy of issuing coins. But facts have proven that it makes sense to insist on innovation and effective products. We know that the industry needs product innovation and technological innovation, and products that truly have users and applications. Although this is difficult, this is the direction we should stick to.
Personal future development direction
He Yi: I never thought that I would find something that I was interested in investing in outside of the crypto industry. My personal personality traits may stem from my previous educational background and experience as a teacher, I enjoy helping others succeed. I always believe that I can only achieve my own success by helping more people succeed. If I were not in the crypto industry, it would be hard for me to imagine anything else worthy of my time and energy. I might just return to the investment field and export effective thinking patterns.
Although I don’t choose to return to education, this is considered a passive choice. But that doesn’t mean I can’t do anything, I’ll still look for things that can help the world. I think Kunbes's choice is understandable. Looking at the speed of AI development, it is indeed smarter than humans. The logical input and output of human thinking is relatively predictable, but it is also error-prone because the gap between knowledge and action is large. Throughout human history, it is normal for people with financial freedom to pursue immortality or enjoy quality of life, but this does not mean that people who leave the industry cannot be trusted, nor does it mean that others do not have opportunities. In fact, some people's departure may create more opportunities for others.
何度も強調してきましたが、2017年から私はただビジネスを始めるだけではなく、歴史を作っていくのです。私は業界に入った初日から、ブロックチェーンが世界に革命的な変化と無限の可能性をもたらすと強く信じていました。そう信じているからこそ、全力で取り組んでいきます。これは、なぜ私が IPO の準備中に前の会社を辞めることを選んだのか、また 1994 年に毅然として辞めた理由も説明しています。なぜなら、ブロックチェーン技術がもたらす可能性のある時代の変化を目の当たりにしたからです。私はこれが私の使命であると考えており、それに全力で取り組んでいます。もっと優れた起業家や才能のある人たちと協力していきたいと思っています。なぜなら、信仰は火花であり、信じることによってのみ、より多くの可能性を見ることができるからです。自分自身が信じていなければ、これらのことはできません。
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